#10: Taylor Loren - The Influencer Training Influencers

[00:02:39] Rob Pintwala: Taylor, thank you so much for joining us. I am gonna start with just asking you about you being open about your mental health journey on social media as being a prevalent content creator yourself. Just wondering where that came from and what maybe prompted you to be open about your mental health.

[00:03:00] Taylor Loren: Yeah, I think when I was struggling so much, like years and years ago, as Instagram stories started to become a thing and people were talking to camera, I followed some people who I really respected their careers and where they were in the business space and they were opening up and sharing their struggles and being so transparent of it.

[00:03:21] And for me, early in my career, it just made me feel so seen and it made me feel a lot less alone and like what I was going through was. More normalized, I guess. And so I'm really passionate about de-stigmatizing mental health, but specifically in the workplace. So I just share because I, it's what I'm going through , it's like, it's my day-to-day life.

[00:03:48] I also just hope, like if one person can see that and is also feeling that day, then you know, it just makes them feel like a little bit more seen. And I think the best way to de-stigmatize mental health, especially when you're talking about a career or something, is to just talk about it. So that's kind of the main driving force behind why I like to share is just to make other people feel less alone.

[00:04:13]And I still get a lot of value from seeing other people share about their mental health too. 'cause you know, so many people are going through it. And the more that we keep secrets and just pretend like everything's fine, the more people feel alone.

[00:04:27] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. That's amazing. In the workplace, was it hard to, were you kind of being open on like a personal social media before being open in the workplace, or how did that look were, did you feel sort of safe to open up in prior workplaces?

[00:04:44] Taylor Loren: Yeah, I think I didn't feel safe when I was in lower level junior positions, but when I, as my career grew, when I was in leadership roles, I really used that to be honest with my team. So they felt like they could be honest back. And so, you know, if I was taking a mental health day 'cause I was really anxious or something, I would just say like, I'm taking a mental health day.

[00:05:10] And I think as a leader, you say that then gives permission for other people to do the same thing instead of having to lie and be like, I have a stomach ache, I'm sick. And people don't have to like to come out and say that. But I think it's just giving permission. Like even halfway through my day, if I was, you know, having an anxiety attack or something, just saying to my team, Hey, like, I'm stepping out for the day, I am feeling really anxious.

[00:05:35] Like, I'll be back earlier tomorrow or whatever. So I think when I became in those leadership roles is really when I started being more vocal just to help my team feel comfortable that they could just be themselves at work and if they were struggling with their mental health, that they could talk to me about it. If they needed, you know, adjustments for their work or whatever.

[00:06:01] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's a good time to give an overview of your career journey up until now and, and how that's looked. Just so everyone's up to speed. 

[00:06:12] Taylor Loren: Yeah, so my career has been, you know, like everyone's, it changes over time. So for the majority of my career I was in marketing roles, you know, leading up to being content marketing director at later, which is an Instagram scheduling platform. Most of my marketing experience has actually been in B2B SaaS tech companies that built social media products.

[00:06:37] So I've always worked very closely with social and I've seen firsthand like having a customer base of social media managers, like how important mental health is to them as well. And then I was head of marketing at Girlboss for a little bit, and then now I'm self-employed. So it's a little mix of like, I have my own business where I create courses to help people, you know, understand and use social media to grow their business.

[00:07:05] I create my own content on my own channels about my life or social media or mental health. So it's a little bit of a mixed bag right now and consulting and all that stuff. But I really love it and I love being self-employed and it was definitely a really great change for me and my mental health for sure.

[00:07:27] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. No, it sounds like ambition is something that's inherent in your life. How long did it take you to, back to what you mentioned around not necessarily feeling safe to be open about your mental health struggles when, before you were in a leadership role. Like did you sort of suffer in silence for a while there? Like, how did that look when you were kind of climbing the ranks at your past companies?

[00:07:54] Taylor Loren: Yes, for sure. I think I wasn't even. Super self-aware enough to really even realize what I was struggling with, you know, in my early twenties, which was like over a decade ago now. I don't think I really even understood that some of my challenges were actually mental health challenges. And you know, 10 years ago the conversation was a lot different.

[00:08:19] So it was showing up to work, it was like masking and presenting what I thought a professional persona would be. I was in my early twenties. I was not always when you're, when I was working in social, in your early twenties when you're also posting on social, got a little bit messy at times for sure just with what I should be posting or what I shouldn't be posting or whatever. But yeah, I think it was just very much like I was feeling like I had to. Present a certain way like everybody else was, and like that was what you did to be like a career person. And it's awesome to me that now, you know, gen Z as they're in the workforce, like they're not doing that.

[00:09:02] Like it's a lot more transparent. They're able to show up exactly who they are. They don't, not everybody, but a lot of them don't have a problem talking about their mental health with their boss or asking for accommodations and stuff like that. So it's been really cool to like see the progress that we've made in just, you know, 10 years. But yeah, I don't think I was super aware of all my challenges when I was in my early twenties.

[00:09:28] Rob Pintwala: Yeah, no, that's fair. I can relate to that at least not more so running from them, not like going towards them and trying to investigate more so just trying to avoid for sure.

[00:09:39] Taylor Loren: Yeah, totally. Like just throwing yourself into whatever other things you can do not feel those emotions. Definitely.

[00:09:48] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. And I think, yeah, a higher, maybe higher level of stamina at that age to just like work and like head down or, you know, work. And then, you know, for me it's just like go party or socialize or whatever. 

[00:10:01] Taylor Loren: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I would be showing up to work with glitter in my hair from the club the night before and it was like, no big deal, but that can't be done now.

[00:10:12] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. So you've worked in social media and you have been an active participant in social media and you still do that on your own in your own business and on your kind of personal, I guess it's all kind of intermingled, I imagine. Tell me about your thoughts on social media and mental health and like where it's. Going, what's changed? Like, I don't remember social media being as addictive as TikTok is today, like what? Like has that changed people's reactions and people's, like mental health in your eyes?

[00:10:53] Taylor Loren: Oh, for sure.

[00:10:53] Rob Pintwala: Yeah.

[00:10:55] Taylor Loren: Yeah. I used to get really defensive about this question because I feel like I had wrapped up so much of my identity and like being a social media person, but now it's like, no, like social media is toxic, it's fake, it's addictive. It can really influence you when you're seeing things multiple times over.

[00:11:18] It can really change your mindset on stuff. I think I'm so grateful that when I was a teenager I didn't have social media. Like we just had MySpace. Like we weren't like being bombarded with just like so much constantly all the time. And they're like dopamine every time you look at your phone or your post and you're getting likes, like those are dopamine hits.

[00:11:44] It is addictive. Yeah, I'm not gonna sit here and say like, it's so amazing and there's definitely pros to it. I really value the community that I've built. I feel like it's very important to me and I love connecting with people in that way. But over the years I've really had to place a lot of boundaries on social media because.

[00:12:09] It is ultimately end of the day like not good for you. And that's like, to me it's just black and white in that way. Like it's not good.

[00:12:21] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. It's interesting, yeah, two things like the boundary setting, but also just like understanding that it's not necessarily good for you, but still. You must have been, you said you used to really be defensive around you know, the adverse effects perhaps of social media.

[00:12:41] Taylor Loren: Yeah, because I was addicted. 

[00:12:43] Rob Pintwala: How do you live with working in the space, being fully immersed in it, but also setting these boundaries? Like, is that a necessity or is that more of a conscious, more like mature outlook in your opinion?

[00:12:56] Taylor Loren: Yeah. So I was very defensive of it because I was addicted to my phone. So if you are addicted to something and someone calls you out for it, you're going to be defensive about that thing. And I still am addicted to my phone, like maybe to a lesser degree, but I think a lot of us are addicted to our phones.

[00:13:14] I have tried so many times to be the person that can wake up in the morning and not look at your phone right away because I know that's what's best for your brain. But I like, I still haven't gotten there yet. It stresses me out to not look at my phone. So yeah, I think that like also with the algorithms, so when we're looking at the reels algorithm or the TikTok algorithm, how those are, and I mean this started with the YouTube algorithm, like how those algorithms are just, you know, you watch one video, you like it or commented or even just, you know, watching, you don't even have to interact on videos.

[00:13:52] But the algorithms are timing. I mean the algorithms are keeping track of how long you are watching something before you scroll away, even if you like, don't like or comment on it, and then it will just continue to keep serving you that content. It's so personalized. I think that's what makes it so addictive, but can also be really harmful too if you just watch one video.

[00:14:16] Like a good example of this is like, I had never really thought about my chin before and then I, you know, was watching some toss and then some girl I followed like got a chin implant and chin lipo. Then those thoughts start going to my head. Then I'm seeing content like chin feller. I get chin filler now, you know?

[00:14:40] And I'm just constantly served all of this content about chins. And so something that I had never really thought of before was never an insecurity of mine, has now become like one of my biggest insecurities and something that I am so conscious of all the time. And that like wasn't there before. I saw that content on TikTok and it was continually being served to me, you know?

[00:15:03] So I think that's an example of how it can really influence you even if you're trying to not be influenced by something.

[00:15:12] Rob Pintwala: Wow. That's a very real story. Yeah. It comes to me like, do you ever feel sort of almost trapped by your line of work? Like if you have a bad experience with social media and maybe have a realization or like a renewed understanding of, oh, it got me again, or something like that, but then you're like, you gotta go to work and you, your clients are just doing this all day.

[00:15:36] And like part of what it feels like, how do you keep that kind of authentic and like true to yourself?

[00:15:43] Taylor Loren: Yeah, I definitely feel trapped a lot of the time when I'm in my, like, darkest days of if I'm going through like a depression low for a couple months, like I'll literally be like, I know enough now that I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna be on social media and I'll take weeks off. But then I'm like, what can I do?

[00:16:06] Like I'm trapped. Even if I didn't want a post on social media, 'cause I like connecting with my audience, but like from a work perspective, any other job that I would wanna do, I need to use marketing to promote that job. You know, like if I created like a, b and b, like I'm gonna need to market that on social media.

[00:16:27] I'm gonna still need to know what's happening in social media and be on social media. So trying to picture a world without it is very difficult. And obviously if it was something that was very negatively affecting me and I needed to do that, I would find a way. But when I'm in a darker place, I do feel trapped a little bit, but I think for me, the biggest change that I've done in the last couple years is really like not putting social media as the number one thing.

[00:17:00] So that can be hard as a creator because to be a successful creator, you don't have to be like posting all the time. Consistency is a huge thing. And where I'm at now, like I just prioritize my mental health over being consistent or posting. So if I am not feeling like it, I won't post on stories for a couple days and then I'll come back and it's not the end of the world.

[00:17:24] And I really encourage other businesses and people to do that too. Like you have to put your mental health first and it's not. Like posting every single day is not worth it, like if it's gonna affect you negatively. And so I also take weeks off of social media if I'm in a low place. 'cause it's just like I can't, it feels like I'm forced to show up.

[00:17:49] And it's interesting how I would love to somehow show what a real day being depressed looks like. But of course I don't have the energy to create content about a real depressed day because if you're really depressed, like that's just the, I'm just sitting in my bed, like I'm not thinking about content and stuff like that.

[00:18:12] So, yeah, I think the biggest thing for me to round out your question is just sticking to my guns and not prioritizing social, like over my own mental health.

[00:18:23] Rob Pintwala: Yeah, no, that's a great leading by example. I find that that's the sort of trade off every time, you know, like algorithms or mental health, you know.

[00:18:36] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[00:18:36] Rob Pintwala: Who's getting the reward? Yeah. Wow. You also mentioned earlier that like, it's fake, you kind of said like social media.

[00:18:44] What do you think about social media rewards?

[00:18:49] People, creators in particular who are vulnerable and who do like to show up at, you know, at least appearingly authentic, right? Like, I've talked to some other folks about this and that. They've said that the more they're open and vulnerable, the more kind of, you know, shares and likes and everything that they get, right?

[00:19:13] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[00:19:14] Rob Pintwala: Do you, have you found yourself in a place where you've gone too far on the vulnerability side and like, it's like you're temp. Did you ever feel tempted by that? Because people kind of embrace it, but then you have like this backlash of like, like someone was telling you about a post that went viral that like was about their breakup and then they started, you know, it went so viral that it went to all these people that they didn't know, you know, and weren't following them.

[00:19:39] And then they were just getting the worst comments and like they had to really block that out. But you know, I know some people can't necessarily block that out so easily.

[00:19:50] Taylor Loren: I think that it's so hard, right? And I definitely don't like to commodify my struggles like clickbait or likes or engagement. Get self-conscious a lot of the time, like, are people. Thinking that I'm like showing myself crying in a story. Like do they think it's because I just wanting engagement or something like that.

[00:20:14] Like I definitely think about that and get self-conscious about it sometimes. And it's really like, it's really hard to balance between, you know, being authentic, like, that's a word. We care so much, but then also not wanting to cry for engagement or something like that, you know? But I have never had something go viral that, like, affected me in a negative way for that.

[00:20:44] The comments on TikTok like are just outrageous and on any viral post you're gonna get opinions of every single opinion that's out there. And so I often don't read a lot of them. Just because I need to protect my own brain space and everything. But yeah it's hard but is even as authentic as somebody is on social media, it's still not the full truth and the full story.

[00:21:13] People might be vulnerable about certain aspects of their life, but they're not like coming out and being vulnerable about every aspect. I don't think I, at least, I'm not like, one area that I don't talk about online is like my marriage and like I just, you know, we could be going through a rough patch or something 'cause of one of us is struggling with our mental health and like, I don't like allude to that.

[00:21:41] I don't like to talk about that on social media. And then it's like hard 'cause then you're like, I don't want it to be like this picture that we're like this picture perfect couple 'cause we're just, you know, a normal couple. But at the same time it's like, I don't wanna ever invite any likes, negativity or gossip or comments like about my marriage.

[00:21:59] 'cause that's like the most important thing to me. So I tend to just share more of my own stuff versus things that include someone else. But yeah, I think there's people out there that definitely kind of milk it a little bit. But I'm just gonna choose to like, think that people aren't doing it for that reason because it's the way, it's an easier way to look at the world.

[00:22:24] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. When did you sort of consider yourself as more of an individual content creator or like an influencer? If, if that's, that you'd kind of identify with, like was it uh, very gradual for you to kind of. Amass this kind of community, or was it around a certain period of time?

[00:22:46] Taylor Loren: Yeah, I would say it's been over, like, about the last 10 years. So, while I was working at one of my tech jobs, I quit and I went on a road trip down to Mexico and back with my best friend. And along the way, [00:23:00] this was in 20. 14. So Instagram was so different then, and people were just posting photos of your coffee in a donut with a Valencia of filter on top.

[00:23:11] They didn't like sharing places and restaurants and stuff like that. So we went on this road trip and we created an Instagram account called Local Wanderer, where we were just sharing things like the spots that we found along the way and stuff. And by the time that we came back from our trip, we had 28,000 followers on Instagram, which was so much back then.

[00:23:32] And so that was kind of like me doing work for quite a few years, really at the beginning of the influencer space, like before there was even that word to define it. And like the only brand working in that space was like Daniel Wellington, and if you got gifted a Daniel Wellington watch, you'd like made it.

[00:23:52] Um, Because at that time it was all about bloggers. So I guess I've kind of been like maybe self-identifying in that space since 2014. But for my own personal self, that would've been near, probably like around when I reached 10,000 followers on Instagram. So I was like the face of the brand that I worked for later.

[00:24:17] And so I, you know, got a lot of followers because people were really engaged in the content that we were putting out later. Like to see the, you know, the behind the scenes of us, you know, building the startup through my lens. yeah, and then since then it's just kind of grown and as I grow as a human, so does my content and change and stuff like that.

[00:24:38] But yeah, I think I've been in the influencer space since the very beginning.

[00:24:43] Rob Pintwala: Yeah and so are you. So you're advising businesses and are you also working with other influencers or acting as a bridge between businesses and influencers.

[00:24:56] Taylor Loren: Yeah. I've worked, I've worked on the influencer marketing side of brands like, you know, doing Campaigns, gifting, all of that stuff. I don't consult with, I don't like to officially consult with other creators right now on their strategy, but I have a lot of creators that purchase, like my learning products and my courses and stuff like that.

[00:25:17] I have a course called the Reals Course. So a lot of creators are like, Hey, I have to learn reels now, so they'll like to purchase my courses for their students. But I love just talking with my other creator friends. I am a bit of a stage mom, content mom. Like, I love just talking with people and like giving them ideas of, of things to do with their content and all of that.

[00:25:40] So, yeah, I'm on both sides, like the creator side and the bread side.

[00:25:45] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. On that note, yeah, I was curious to how many sort of, I guess, influencers or like, you know, creators were kind of in your network, but, you know, would you say that folks look to you as like a I don't know if leader is the right word, but someone who's been open about their mental health and like someone like that they can open up to you?

[00:26:05] Like, are, have you had other creators and influencers and folks that are, you know, really focused on creating content, open up to you or share that, you know, it's hard on your mental health. What are the secrets to what's happening with these folks?

[00:26:22] Taylor Loren: It is definitely hard. It's a very lonely job for people. 'cause you're working by yourself a lot of the time. So it's great when you can build other friends and then the space, 'cause they act as your, like pseudo coworkers, you know? It's very lonely. Most of the people who are creators are introverts.

[00:26:40] Even though it seems like we might be very extroverted on camera, it's 'cause they're, we're often like creating content and like a quiet, safe space alone. And yes, I mean, like burnout, especially when you have to be on social media all the time for your job, trying to keep up with trends, trying to keep up with the new features.

[00:27:00] Like it's very exhausting dealing with, you know, negative comments. You have to have a really thick skin or build a really thick skin. So yeah, it can, it's very taxing on your mental health. So I actually spoke at a meta event in the fall with creators like all around, you know, some ways or different features and boundary setting you can do to make sure that you don't burn out.

[00:27:25] Because if you wanna have a sustainable career as a creator, you have to be good at. Creating boundaries with social and with your emotional and mental health, because otherwise you're not gonna be able to make it in the long term. You know? And you have to be okay with also going through seasons of times when you're really excited and feeling creative about something and other seasons where it feels a bit like a slog.

[00:27:51] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. I like how you used the word seasons there. It just seems very . It's just a part of the year. Yeah. 

[00:27:58] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[00:27:59] Rob Pintwala: That's cool. So, what are some of like the, what's like the Cliffs or Cole's notes of some of the big bullet points that you would've shared for. You know, the most important things to look at if you're looking at a sustainable or like as sustainable as you can make it, career as a content creator both learned firsthand and also through observation too, I'm sure. Right.

[00:28:23] Taylor Loren: I think my biggest tip is to identify what parts of content creation feel very overwhelming to you because there's so much, so for me, I love to film and I love to create, and I don't love to edit. I find it very difficult to sit down and edit for a long period of time, probably because I have ADHD.

[00:28:51] So outsourcing the editing to someone else has made such a huge change for me because I was like, what are my challenges right now? What do I feel like I can't do? I have trouble with editing? Okay, I'm going to like to outsource to an editor. Some other people that could be like actually physically like posting their posts or like replying to the comments.

[00:29:11] I think for me a big Thing was also being like, okay, I actually get very emotionally drained answering my dms. That doesn't always feel like a safe space for me with my mental health. So I really don't go through my dms that often anymore. I go through like a few of them and stuff, and you know, there's the different folders in your inbox.

[00:29:35] So, if I've talked with people before, like they show up in my general I'll check that one pretty regularly. But it was really draining for me to constantly like, get other people's opinions, get other people's thoughts in my head, feel like I had to emotionally engage with others. So I just stopped doing that.

[00:29:52] I'll read every single comment. If you wanna talk to me, like leave a comment, I'll reply back. But yeah, so I think it's really like identifying which specific areas Are more difficult for you, so you can find solutions for those you're not going to like, burn out as easily. Planning is really important.

[00:30:10] So the more that you have a plan, like a content calendar, then you're not gonna wake up every day and feel stressed about like, what am I gonna like create today? Or something like that. So like, I created a content calendar template and notion that I sell for like, super cheap just to help people like feel less overwhelmed.

[00:30:31] For me, at least when I plan, like that makes me feel like less stressed out and less like I'm gonna burn out. But then, like what I teach in my courses is like when you're planning content, you could be like, really like amped up and like planning two weeks and you're gonna post every single day. But like, I really encourage people to then remove about 25% of what you've planned because.

[00:30:53] It's just, you're not gonna get to the whole thing, then you're gonna be overwhelmed. You're gonna be stressed out because you didn't do, you're gonna feel like a failure. So let's just preemptively, once you're done with it, then like take 25% of it out. And then of course, like any boundaries you can make with your phone or in your personal life, the better.

[00:31:15] So I always do like consent checks if I'm around people just to make sure, like, Hey, are you cool being in like my story or something? And if one of my friends or a friend's boyfriend or something isn't all good, like, I'm not gonna record you. I'm not gonna like post about you. I never want like my content to get in the way of actual like, relationships that I have with people.

[00:31:37] And then, yeah, just trying to find time not being on your phone. And that's like the biggest thing. It can be so hard, but it's also like, in order to remain creative, and this is a creative job, you need to allow yourself to have space to like be creative. And you're not going to get those ideas and stuff if you're just sitting on your phone all the time.

[00:32:00] You need to like put the phone down and go do other things and give your brain the space to like wander.

[00:32:08] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah, those are great, those, that's a great framework. I'm curious if you, in your career so far of working with content creators and educating them and building courses for them, do you get a lot of like sort of aspirational content creators that come through and sort of like folks that are kind of just early starting out?

[00:32:32] I'm more so interested in like, what are, what do you think the main motivations are to become a content creator like, Is there is there like a time when this sort of painted picture of what it's like to be a content creator becomes real for people? Like what's the disconnect between what it looks like to be a content creator and what it actually is?

[00:32:58] Taylor Loren: It is a lot of emails, if you don't like emails, like don't become an influencer. Yeah, it's I read that like, it's the number one job. Like kids in elementary school, when they say they wanna grow up, what they wanna do when they grow up, they wanna be a YouTuber or something like that.

[00:33:14] So there's a lot, there's a lot of people that want to go into this line of work. I think. goes in it for different reasons. Just like anyone can become an actor or something for different reasons. You know, there's people that might wanna be famous. There's people that like, love the art of it, and it's like an expression of their art or something, and they want to connect with people.

[00:33:36] There's a lot of people that it just randomly happens to as well, and they're just kind of like posting on TikTok and stuff, and then they might like blow up and all of a sudden they're like just having, you know, sharing their life with people. And now all of a sudden they're like, oh, can I make money from this?

[00:33:50] And then finally there's gonna be people who would just wanna go in it for the money, you know, and they just see that. They can make a lot of money on this job, and that's what they're gonna do. But I think that the most successful creators are creative and they're doing it because they love to do it. And if they don't love to do it anymore, then they pivot, you know, into something else.

[00:34:16] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. Have you, it seems like, like it just seems like such a snowball effect that like, The more you do it, and if you're good at it, the more you know your audience grows, the more rewarding it might become financially. Perhaps there's a correlation with how taxing that becomes. Maybe not. Do have you, is there any successful, like, it just that, just like screams trapped to me, you know, like if your mental health is really struggling and you're like getting paid more and you know that you wait, you're on your phone all the time and you're always having to perform.

[00:34:52] Like, it just, it's kinda my nightmare. You know. Have you seen anyone successfully pivot or exit being a content creator and be like public about it in a, I don't know, inspirational way? Is there any examples that come to mind?

[00:35:10] Taylor Loren: Yeah, for sure. There is this little bit of a trend of like de influencing happening right now, and I think there are definitely a lot of people who are pivoting. So like from a big macro level, like Emma Chamberlain, who was, you know, so successful on YouTube and posted blogs multiple times a week for years and years.

[00:35:35] It is too much for her. So she like barely posts on YouTube anymore and I miss her on YouTube. But she started her podcast instead because she can still stay connected with her fans and her community. But to her it was like, I can just get in my bed and I can talk on the microphone and I'm not spending like, know, an entire week editing a video that because she has, you know, her, it's too hard for her 'cause she like likes to edit all of her own videos and stuff.

[00:36:04] Lee Tilman, she, her Instagram handle is like Lee from America. She used to be a really big like health influencer. And then she stopped went away for a long time. And now kind of she's back and she actually has like these workshops that she does to help other influencers realize like the skills that they have to go get a job.

[00:36:26] So she went and got like a marketing role. I think working on like a social media team for a company and just got like a nine to five job and she talks about how her life is, you know, so much better because of that. 'cause ultimately she just wasn't cut. Wasn't cut out for it. Yeah.

[00:36:43] Rob Pintwala: The college alternative. These days.

[00:36:46] Taylor Loren: Yeah, totally.

[00:36:48] Rob Pintwala: Yeah, no, it's great. It's great to see, kind of see those stories and see them. Yeah, I see folks aware of them. Yeah. Is there, I feel like we've been chatting about this for a while as far as, maybe my own interest in just like underworld of like influencer mental health.

[00:37:03] You know, is there anything else that you would kind of say before we maybe move on to a little bit more of your personal story? Like as far as, you know, what people may not think is a hidden cost or something of being an influencer or maybe like what's, what's the best parts of it that you see? 

[00:37:22] Taylor Loren: I think one of the biggest hidden costs is it's very difficult to separate your own personal self-worth from that of your content. So if your content is kind of flopping or you post one video and it does really well, you're instantly like gonna feel like happy from that, right? And if it posts you post it and doesn't perform so well, you're not gonna feel that great.

[00:37:52] It's really hard to not like let the algorithm numbers define your own self-worth and like creating a separation between those two things. Because ultimately it's like we're at the hands of like this algorithm is out there controlling whether content reaches people. The algorithm can be very frustrating for a lot of people. So it's just important to not like, think that because your videos are getting less views or something like that, that means like, people don't like you or something like that. So I think that is really like a very hidden cost and something that a lot of people struggle with. One of the best parts is for me just having like a flexible schedule and being fully in control of my own schedule.

[00:38:43] It has been very good for me as my mental health goes up and down, I can really this year I took, I dunno, almost six months off pretty much of work because I needed to, I was very like in an healthy space and I had the flexibility to do that if I was still in my corporate job. I wouldn't, but then there's like hard things about that too, right? Because then you have to be self-motivated to work and not, you don't have the structure and everything.

[00:39:14] But for me, the best part is definitely like the flexibility because I think that really allows me to prioritize my mental health above everything. Because if I've learned, like if I'm not doing that in my life, then everything else falls apart and I'm not gonna be able to work if I'm not doing that first.

[00:39:34] So, you know, just even being able to take days off when I need to or work half days or just have the flexibility to like go see my friends or family if I need to, is like really great for me.

[00:39:47] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Maybe you can share a little bit more about how you transitioned into being self-employed and what that looked like. Was that a really difficult decision? Was it, were you forced to do that? 

[00:40:00] Taylor Loren: Yeah, so I was working at later and I had been working there for like five and a half years. So I think five and a half, around five years. And I was just looking back on that. I was just so burnt out, like extremely burnt out. I was having a very difficult time controlling my emotions, managing my emotions.

[00:40:24] It just felt like I was on this roller coaster. And you know, co working in tech at the beginning of Covid was very stressful. And it was this weird thing where, how, you know, a lot of people are. Out of work and getting laid off. And then the other people who have, do have their jobs still, it's like the most like stressful time in your job that you've ever had or whatever.

[00:40:48] So, it was a lot. So I left in January, 2020, or sorry, I left in July, 2020. And I just made the decision that it was just time to do something else and give myself like a break. So I took like the whole summer off to figure out what I wanted to do and be self-employed. But then I got like another job offer in the fall that I took.

[00:41:18] And then finally like. In June of 2021, I left that role and I was really like, okay, I want to try and do my own thing. Like, I think that's best for me. Let's try this again. So it's like I tried to be self-employed, got tempted with another job, and then tried it again. yeah, learned a lot through that process, but I'm really happy that I did take that leap and take that chance on myself because I don't ever wanna go back.

[00:41:46] I mean, you never say never, but I just really can't see myself having a corporate job again. And even where my business is at, like, I'm not trying to my accounts to like hundreds of thousands of followers. I'm not trying to like have like a $5 million business. I really just want to have a good, like, lifestyle income to like, Live the life that I want and not have pressure to like be growing all the time because I don't want to have like a huge team and huge responsibility.

[00:42:18] 'cause like the more you grow, like the more stressful it is. And like when my husband and I are looking at moving and we're really looking at like, where can we have like a more affordable cost of living so that I don't feel all this pressure to be making so much money so that my mental health is better and I'm not as burnt out all the time.

[00:42:39] 'cause it's like more money, more stress, more problems like in business a lot of the time. 

[00:42:45] Rob Pintwala: I hear that. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. It sounds like you're really taking priorities in the . Context and yeah, getting out of the

[00:42:54] Taylor Loren: I'm trying

[00:42:55] Rob Pintwala: In some, to some extent. Yeah. Very. All these big cities are very expensive now. And so on this, on your entrepreneurial journey, like it sounds like a part of that was motivated by your mental health.

[00:43:08] I'm curious how you, like, you've kind of referenced your mental health several times and you kind of, you've referenced sort of that it like is almost like cyclical or maybe seasonal as you've alluded to with the other with influencer, you know, this, the seasonal aspect of that. Like how do you, like, do you view your mental health as sort of this like fluid thing that kind of comes and goes and, and you're kind of, it is not necessarily something you view as being able to like conquer it doesn't sound like, tell me how you kind of view it as being part of your life and your health.

[00:43:45] Taylor Loren: I think I'm still very much in, My anxiety, my depression is very much like, Cyclical. Like I feel like there's good times, there's bad times. It's been frustrating as I've I started on antidepressants about a year ago and it was so amazing. It was so great. And I was like, my life has cured forever. And then after a few months, my medication started wearing off, upped the dosage, felt better for a bit, kind of stopped working, got covid, which each time I've got covid, it's really negatively affected my mental health.

[00:44:27] And that really sparked me going into like a very dark depression again. And I just remember that like in March and I was just crying to my husband and I was just like, is it always going to be like this? I'm gonna feel good and then I'm gonna feel bad again. Like, To me it was hard because I reme, I was so now aware of what it felt like to feel good again and feel like I was not depressed going through my life.

[00:44:57] And so then it was like even harder when I was depressed again. 'cause I was like the, I know it doesn't have to be this way. So then we like increased my meds again. And then it was like, okay, this is all going really well. But then it was like, I think that I have ADHD 'cause I'm still really struggling in a lot of these areas, getting the ADHD diagnosis now, trying those medications.

[00:45:22] So I think I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that it is always gonna be like an evolving, cyclical thing. It's really important that I remind myself that like, medications can be great and help, but they can't be like the only thing, there's no like magical pill that like solves everything. So I need to.

[00:45:44] Do work on my end with behavioral changes or like awareness and do like other things to manage it as well. Because I think I was in that mindset for a little bit after I started medication where I was like, oh, this great magic pill, I'm fixed. But then I wasn't doing all the other stuff that I still need to be doing.

[00:46:03] And that, you know, that's as simple as like meditating, working out , drinking water, like all of those things. so yeah I'm trying to get at peace with the fact that it's like always gonna be changing, but I definitely am always striving to be like, how can I optimize my life to make me like the most emotionally stable that I can be?

[00:46:26] 'cause yeah, when I think about having kids and like being a mom, I really like, I. That's where I, that's I guess my motivation for trying to like, get all of this stuff under control because that, that worries me. And I don't wanna be like a, I would like to be like a very, like, constant and consistent, have consistency in my kids' life.

[00:46:47] And I, I sometimes do really worry about what that will look like when I have kids one day.

[00:46:53] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Well, you're definitely not alone there. I know of many folks who with similar  motivations, and I think that's incredible. Like it's very admirable to. Be doing all the work now with that in mind. Yeah I've felt a similar, almost like guilt where, not even a guilt might not be the right word, but when you feel, when I was quite depressed when I was in university, I knew like all the circumstances in my life seemed great, right?

[00:47:24] I am being financially supported by my parents and like, I'm in this really fun city and I'm all alone and I have all, this is my time to have fun. But I felt like shit. And

[00:47:35] Nothing like was fitting together. And I'm like, okay. There's almost like, I felt guilt for like wasting this time.

[00:47:42] That should have been the best time of my life being depressed. But I like, but I knew that I was completely outta control because I'd been there for a while and I was trying to get out of it and I was like, this is like I, I don't know what to do anymore. Like, I was like, yeah. Exercising and whatever, and you know,

[00:47:58] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[00:47:59] Rob Pintwala: too much and those types of things, probably doing too much, you know, weeded or whatever.

[00:48:04] But yeah it's like when you first started taking the antidepressants and you got that kind of initial boost, like it must have been easy to think that it was the silver bullet, right? It's like, who felt that great. It's almost like unfair that it's like you felt that way, you know?

[00:48:18] I'm sure you thought that, right? That's difficult. I haven't had too many conversations with folks about their medication, but know it's evolving and I, you know, some of my family members have been, you know, battling with the dosage and their medication got switched on them and they sent them, you know, down a different path that they wanted to go and yeah.

[00:48:42] So, let's talk a little bit about the transition from the. you're doing the SSRIs on antidepressants and then you thought you had ADHD. I can relate 'cause I believe we went to the same ADHD clinic. I also got diagnose with ADHD recently which has made a lot of sense for me in terms of how I behave.

[00:49:04] Currently drinking a coffee, that's generally how I medicate myself. It's just tons of caffeine But how did that look for you? So like, did you start noticing more of like the ADHD stuff later in your life, like more recently? Or did it just kind of become uncovered when you became more aware of where it might have been coming from?

[00:49:25] Taylor Loren: Yeah, it's such a, like trope, but it was 'cause of TikTok

[00:49:30] Rob Pintwala: Yep.

[00:49:30] Taylor Loren: and seeing so much ADHD stuff on TikTok and realizing like, oh, sounds a lot like me. And, you know, doing some research and finding out that like, women, especially like my age, were like so underdiagnosed because so many of the research into ADHD especially, you know, back in the day when I was growing up was on how symptoms present in boys, and it wasn't there for girls.

[00:50:01] So a lot of women went undiagnosed, like their whole lives. And I remember I was watching this video from a doctor and he was saying oftentimes if a mom will bring her kid in now to like get assessed or whatever, and then the doctor's talking to the mom and trying to think like, oh, where does this like come from?

[00:50:20] And then the mom ends up like getting diagnosed when she's like bringing her kid in. So yeah, so I was, you know, watching lots of toss and realize, and once I was on my antidepressants, realizing that like some of the issues that I thought were my, because of my depression, like realizing maybe these aren't actually like depression things, or even just realizing like, So many things that I do that are actually like ADHD symptoms, like my, so I was diagnosed with like both inattention and hyperactivity.

[00:50:55] And that was so validating for me because suddenly I was like, oh [00:51:00] my gosh, all these things that I thought were just like me as a failure as a human actually just like my brain working differently. And little things like, like picking or like fidgeting, like I would be doing that all the time.

[00:51:13] And so, you know, when you're getting assessed, like they ask about your childhood and it's wild to me to think of like, All the different things I was doing as a kid and just masking it or learning to, you know, make it a positive instead of a negative. But yeah, I went 33 years of my life without getting diagnosed and then just getting the diagnosis and talking with the doctor about everything was, it was just so validating to me.

[00:51:39] I was just like, okay, these are, I'm not a failure, basically. My brain's just different.

[00:51:48] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah I hear that my counselor actually recommended I get diagnosed, like I was 32 when I got diagnosed, so, gave me a lot of clarity into how my brain works, and mostly just a talking point to convince my wife that that's just me. It's not my issue but I can't function while around the house.

[00:52:09] Taylor Loren: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So like having the doctor tell me that like, I overly rely on people to do things for me, that was like such a huge wake up moment and I was like, wow. Like I really do overly rely on my husband for like all of the, you know, house domestic things. And I had never thought that I like overly rely on people.

[00:52:30] So now, even now I just even have like that awareness to be like, okay, let's try and not overly rely on other people and take a bit more responsibility for myself. But now my toxic trait is like diagnosing other people with ADHD because that's just like where I just like have all the symptoms in my head all the time and I'm like could be adhd, but 

[00:52:54] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. 

[00:52:55] Taylor Loren: I'm not a doctor.

[00:52:57] Rob Pintwala: It's, there's two lines of thought. I find that people think it's overdiagnosed and then people think it's underdiagnosed, but I find for me at least, I don't know, I. I'm curious to get your thoughts around the actual diagnosis in general, and not just ADHD but like depression and other things. Right.

[00:53:12] I think I come from a line of thought where not thought even like, literally my family a stigma, like quite a bit of stigma around diagnosis and and that's almost like inherited in my upbringing. And it took me a lot of time to sort of understand the purpose of diagnoses and like the history of like, diagnoses and actually, like, I'm kind of biased now 'cause I run a mental health company and almost five years.

[00:53:40] So I'm really like pretty deep in the weeds on this stuff. And I don't think most folks are like, necessarily as like, yeah, kind of read in on like the D S M and like all these things around, you know, Why there's diagnoses and it's for like, you know, insurance and all this other stuff like that. But anyways, what I'm trying to say is like, by the time I got my ADHD diagnosis, I was already like, well thought through that.

[00:54:06] Like, if I was diagnosed, it's not gonna shock my, you know, shift my world. The diagnosis for me is like, it's not something that I throw out there all the time to people. It's kind of like a tool for me to understand myself better and to understand how my brain might be, you know, I guess, neuro divergent, right?

[00:54:27] But I find that a lot of folks these days use their. Like diagnoses right up front in kind of their identity. Like they almost like attach themselves to their diagnoses perhaps. And I, you know, I'm not necessarily judging, but I'm just kind of curious what your take is like, especially in the social media context where like a lot of people will throw out their diagnoses like in their, like Instagram bio or take, you know what I mean, like Twitter or whatever.

[00:54:54] How do you think about it for you, how do you think about your diagnoses and like your identity as a human? Is that, how do those two mix.

[00:55:03] Taylor Loren: I definitely really own it as a part of my identity. I may think that's just because I have to do that in order to not feel like shame around it for myself. And obviously everybody is different, but. I think it's just like that's who I am. And I, also, if I'm meeting people for the first time, like I'll do a little bit of a disclosure sometimes.

[00:55:29] Like if I were just hanging out and there's other people's friends there or something, and I realize like, oh, if I like really cut somebody off or like really interrupted them or something, I'll be like, say it after. I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like I have ADHD if I interrupt you. Like, I'm not doing that to like be rude because that's the one, that's the biggest issue I have in social settings.

[00:55:52] interrupting people. I've interrupted you a few times on this podcast. 

[00:55:57] Rob Pintwala: Worry, I have the same issue. It's easier not to interrupt. I find on the video you could just like sit quietly, put myself on mute. Yeah. But I have the same issue. But you said that I have aDHD, right? Like some people might even say I am ADHD. Right.

[00:56:13] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[00:56:13] Rob Pintwala: A big difference there, right?

[00:56:14] It's like you like the attachment there is different. Some people say, I am depressed. Some people say I have depression, or I, you know, I find That's different for folks. Yeah.

[00:56:28] Taylor Loren: Yeah, I would be, I would say like I have depression, I have anxiety, I have ADHD. It's a part of who I am, but it doesn't like define everything of who I am. But if you wanna get to know me, it's important to understand those things because like my friends are very familiar with my anxiety and depression, and I guess my ADHD too.

[00:56:55] You know, because they'll know, like Taylor's dropped off the pace of the earth. She's not texting anybody back. And they'll know like, okay, she's going, gone into her depression cave or something probably, you know, and so they'll send a little check-in and but they're not like gonna take it personally if I don't like text 'em back right away.

[00:57:15] 'cause they're used to that, right? Used to that now. same things with like, me on plans a lot. Like I am, I don't like to bail, but there's definitely been a lot of times in my life I've been a flaky friend because I'm just depressed and I like can't get outta bed that day to go to the thing that I said I would go to with you, or I'm like, so emotionally drained.

[00:57:39] So understanding all of that stuff I think is important if I'm gonna like, have relationships with people in my life. As far as like strangers go and stuff, yeah, I don't know. I guess if I'm like, oh, if I talk about it on my Instagram, I'm not like afraid to talk about it. In life. But yeah, I would definitely say it's like more of the, it's a part of me, but it doesn't define like everything about me.

[00:58:04] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. No, that's great. It sounds like your community and your friends group is really supportive. Did you, do you have any , have they just been along for the ride with you or have you done anything deliberate to sort of like when you said like they check in with you and they send check-ins, is that something that has just happened without discussing or is that something like when you're feeling good, have you asked friends to maybe like, check in with you if they don't hear from you in a while?

[00:58:31] Or is it, you know, 'cause I find that sounds like a good setup.

[00:58:38] Taylor Loren: Yeah, most of my friends, almost all of 'em, like I have a, I prefer to have like a smaller circle of really close friends and a larger circle of. Friends. So they've all known me for like either like my whole life or like at least 10 years or something like that. An occasional friend. Any [00:59:00] newer friends that I have I tend to, they tend to also have their own mental health challenges and I find like we can relate together a lot for that because it's important to me if I have friends that like you, like me when I'm happy.

[00:59:16] Even you like me when I'm sad too. So yeah, I think it's been something that has just really evolved over the years as I've gone through different, like ups and downs and I mean, like there was a lot of downs and there was, you know, year like and years where I was very depressed. So I think it can be like hard to be, it is hard to be friends with somebody when they're going through that because.

[00:59:44] You wanna be there for them you don't maybe always know how to be there for them and stuff like that. So I think just having friends that like really just accept me for who I am and are okay. Just like coming over. Like, like my friend Jasmine, for example, like when we were living in la she lives in la.

[01:00:02] Like, she would just call me and be like, what are you up to? And be like uh, I'm not feeling so great, dah, dah, dah. And she'd be like, it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna come over. And like, if you're, and she would know that like if I am like lying on the couch depressed, just watching Love Island on repeat, like she's like, she'll just come over and watch Love Island on repeat with me.

[01:00:21] You know? And like I really appreciate that and not feeling like I have to always like, hang out with my friends and like do all these things. Like sometimes we can just chill together if I'm in my depression wave, you know?

[01:00:32] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That sounds like an incredible friendship. Yeah.

[01:00:37] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[01:00:39] Rob Pintwala: I wanted to ask about your experience with therapy and if there's been any like meaningful. Therapy relationships or transformations and just how you view about it. And feel free to like talk . You know, use whatever opinion you have even though I have a affiliation with a therapy company.

[01:00:57] Like has it not worked? Has it worked? Is it mixed? Does it depend? Have you had many therapists? Do you hate therapy?

[01:01:06] Taylor Loren: I have had a couple therapists. I love therapy, so I started therapy, had never done it before until I quit my corporate job, but later and I was burnt out and I took that summer off and I did therapy once a week for a year. And I used to not be able to talk about any of my childhood trauma, like at all, like, Barely been with my husband.

[01:01:36] And I really pushed a lot of things down and just didn't deal with them. And I really used work actually as one of those coping mechanisms. Like the more I work, the less I have to think about with stuff. So I was using work a bit in a, like an unhealthy way. So when I started therapy was really able to start healing that childhood trauma and feeling like I could, you know, talk about some stuff again with different people.

[01:02:09] And it was very transformational for me for sure. Also, just, you know, talking about my day-to-day stuff as well, I actually talk about work a lot in therapy, whether it's like me feeling overwhelmed or just talking through. stuff that's happening. I find that it really helps me a lot. So my, I got lucky, like you always hear about people needing, like, trying so many therapists before they find one that they click with.

[01:02:40] And I got really lucky with my first therapist. We clicked right away, but then she got pregnant, so she was gonna be, she took about like a year and a half off. So then I had to find another therapist and then I, it took me like probably like nine months to go to therapy again because I was so afraid of like, [01:03:00] looking for another therapist and just like being on lists or something like that.

[01:03:07] Like I just wasn't, I was like, oh, I'm fine. Like I don't need this. And it just made me like, feel afraid that I would have to like go look, go looking for another therapist again. then I eventually got one and. Totally different therapy style. And at first I was like, I hate this. This isn't my therapist.

[01:03:26] Like, I'm so upset. Um, But then after like a couple, I stuck with it. And then after a couple sessions I actually really appreciated a different style of therapy. It felt a lot more

[01:03:40] I was learning a lot more about like how my brain was working or like how my triggers were working. It felt like a little bit like I was in a psych class a bit and I realized that was like really helpful for me to like learn about, you know, my like window of tolerance or like different like emo words to describe my emotions and all of this different stuff.

[01:04:02] And then that therapist got pregnant. And so, but it worked out 'cause by the time she went on mat leave, then my other therapist was back. So, I'm back with her now. But I think it's also like interesting to try out different therapists and try different therapy styles because I can get a lot from both of 'em.

[01:04:20] And my husband and I are starting couples therapy next week, so that's gonna be a whole new forte for us. 'cause he does individual therapy, he does group therapy with his brothers. And then now we're gonna be doing couples therapy together. So we're big on therapy in this household for sure.

[01:04:40] Rob Pintwala: I love that. Group therapy with his brothers. That sounds something like I, I could get into That's amazing. Yeah. People, I think it's changed that, I mean, I did couples counseling before I even got married with my partner and now wife. And I think it was like amazing. Like, it just, you literally can just get to stuff that you know, have a hard time bringing up with one another very quickly and very calmly , you know, with the third party there.

[01:05:06] And it's awesome. You just like, it's just so much progress. So I think it's great. I think it's, I know people who do it constantly and just to keep their kind of relationship fresh. So yeah. Good for you. I love the advocacy. I find it also ironic that you probably had a lot of benefits in your corporate jobs and then you started therapy after you probably had no

[01:05:26] Taylor Loren: I know. Now I pay for it all myself. Yeah, I just, I was just in this space where, I don't know, it, it felt scary to me to start because it would be talking about, you know, stuff that I knew I didn't wanna talk about or think about. I think that was a lot of my hesitancy with going and finding a second therapist as well, was being like I.

[01:05:51] I don't wanna revisit all of these, like past traumas and talk about them again with somebody new. But I learned that you can, you don't have to go into detail about every like, little thing or whatever. But yeah I was afraid for a long time and I think a lot of people are, and for different reasons, you know, some people might feel like they don't want to feel like something's wrong with 'em, or some people are, maybe they're just like me and they're just like afraid to talk about different stuff.

[01:06:21] But for me it's been so, so, so good. It's literally like the, been the best thing for my mental health for sure. And just also for my relationships with different people and starting to heal and realizing that like, you really don't have to be defined by different things that have happened in your life and that you can, you know, move on from them and grow from 'em.

[01:06:44] And. Yeah, so I'm a big advocate of it for sure.

[01:06:49] Rob Pintwala: It's incredible. Yeah. I'm looking for another therapist right now myself. I'm trying to take my time, but I'm trying not to. Yeah, I mean, I, my whole business is around helping people find the right fit, so I'm like, I gotta find the right fit for myself. For me, it's also like if I work with someone who's on my website, there's like a bit of conflict of interest there.

[01:07:07] Taylor Loren: Oh yeah.

[01:07:07] Rob Pintwala: Off my website, but it's a good exploration for me to do. Yeah, and I also just moved, so, but I did therapy for almost two years. Very, you know, up until the end of last year. Took a bit of a break and I'm like, all right, ready to go again. Yeah. It's great. It's just having the time set aside for like you, right?

[01:07:25] There's so you got an hour or whatever and you're just gonna focus on trying to get your life, you know, to a better place or your relationships or just give, even just giving you time to process what's going on in your life. So, yeah.

[01:07:39] Taylor Loren: Yeah. And also seeing like the longer you stick with someone too, like, like in my therapy two days ago, you know, I was talking about something, she was like, Taylor, I just wanna point out that this is really positive growth from you and like something that I didn't even clock or realize. And she was like, you know, this isn't how you used to respond to situations like this.

[01:08:00] You would really like, you know, X, Y, Z. And she's like, but you're not doing that anymore. Like, this is really good. I don't know if you don't realize that, but like this is. Very healthy. And I was like, oh, okay. I didn't notice that at all. So it's like that it can help. You know, sometimes getting a little bit of a gold star for things that behaviors that you don't even really realize that you're changing or improving or growing in.

[01:08:24] And for someone to be like watching along the way and being able to like acknowledge like, Hey, like proud of you for that's great too.

[01:08:30] Rob Pintwala: The best. That's the best. What a great way to get affirmations like that. I wanted to.

[01:08:37] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[01:08:38] Rob Pintwala: Yeah, just it us maybe wrapping up soon, I wanted to just kind of re acknowledge what you said earlier about just like prioritizing your mental health and like putting that first, and I also think it's maybe the fact that you're also an entrepreneur and also mentioned that you're not necessarily like, striving to keep growing and keep making more money and hiring and, and I find that for at least people I talk to who are maybe like feeling sort of maybe trapped in the corporate life or in a role that they don't love or a company they don't love or feel underappreciated, that they maybe think that the only way to like be an entrepreneur or to go out on their own is to take a big swing or raise venture capital, you know, go and build something huge.

[01:09:30] And I don't think that It's not very talked about or glamorized to sort of view what you've, what you're doing. And just like having your priorities, being your health and your family, your relationships, and having your business just sort of support those things. I think that's amazing. 

[01:09:50] Taylor Loren: Yeah.

[01:09:50] Rob Pintwala: Just curious, like Yeah, just more about how you think about that and how you might tell others to sort of maybe think of maybe a bit differently if they think that the only way is like to stay with a corporate grinder to take a huge risk or something.

[01:10:07] Like how, how do you, what's the, how do you mitigate that? 

[01:10:10] Taylor Loren: Yeah, so it's basically, it's called a lifestyle Business is the not a startup. There's like two things, and a lot of times in like a lifestyle business can like be looked down upon because they're not after like exponential growth. But you know, if you're in a corporate role and it's not feeling like the right fit for you, like you could just switch to doing like freelancing or consulting in that same capacity that's a great way to do something without feeling like you have to like, invest all this money in building this new business or something like that.

[01:10:46] There's a lot of, or if you do have a passion, you wanna start a small business or something, you know, like starting. small business can, you know, be very challenging. So for me, like I started with just like, cool, I'm gonna freelance now for a bit and I'm gonna like work on some content stuff and I'm gonna work on this course and, you know, but I'm just going to freelance.

[01:11:07] And then I liked that and did that for, you know, a couple years. And yeah, I think for me it's just really like having ex, having people you can look up to who are doing the same thing is really important. So I would not have done what I did in quitting my last job to do what I'm doing now. If, like, my friend Puno hadn't like, inspired me because like, that's what her, she has a business, she's very much about, you know, a lifestyle business, wants to like support her lifestyle, wants to still be around to like see her kid and all this stuff, you know? And her sharing with me, like actual numbers of her business was, that was the number one thing that made me be like, okay, cool. I can go do this now. I'm gonna be making more money than I am in my corporate job, but I'm also not gonna be like as stressed out, which was the number one thing that I wanted, and I'm probably not gonna have to work as many hours.

[01:12:06] So that seems like a better life for me. So I think like if you can find people have those conversations with friends or whatever, like even until you see it for yourself, you might not even think like, oh, that's an option, you know? But I have other course creator friends who make millions and millions of dollars off of their courses, but they have teams of like 25 people.

[01:12:28] And I do not like being a manager. I don't think I'm that great at it, even though that was my career for a long time. Like I. Don't like being responsible for a lot of people's happiness at work. And I just wanna have like super small team and yeah, just like, and not have to work as much. Like, that sounds like such a privileged thing, but it's like in the corporate nine to five world, like it's very much like you're 40 hours a week, you're 50, you're 55 hours.

[01:13:00] And like I've realized that like I don't have to sit at a computer for eight hours a day. Like I'm way more productive if I'm working shorter days or working from my phone or having like a creative day or things like that. You can get just as much like work done or really like make similar money without having to work as much like eight hours a day at a computer. Like, I can't handle that anymore.

[01:13:30] Rob Pintwala: I love it. Yeah. That's incredible. Maybe just one more thing, like if anyone is considering consulting or freelancing or starting that while they're like, would you recommend doing that when they're in their job? Or like, how would you test the waters? How would you recommend testing the waters if you're still in a corporate job?

[01:13:50] Taylor Loren: I think like consulting and freelancing can be really difficult to do while you have a nine to five job. A lot of people still do it 'cause they need side hustles for the money or whatever. You know, that's more work can be really difficult. So you can start with something small on the side. I think what I would really recommend to prioritize is like, number one, saving up money.

[01:14:10] Like having at least three months saved up. Preferably six like I did that I didn't reason I kind of like went back to, got another job, was like, hey, like. Sitting in a pandemic, I can't travel anywhere. I'm really not spending that much money. I might as well like be, you know, making this really good salary.

[01:14:31] And I saved up a ton of money and like, so I was like, cool, if this doesn't work, I have like six months of runway and I'll be okay. So like, that's the number one thing. Like really, please don't quit your job until you saved up some money and then really focus on your network. So say you're like, Hey, I wanna quit my job in three months.

[01:14:49] I'm gonna, you know, save up money and really focus on like your network and talking with people again to narrow them. Focus on that instead of like building a website or something for yourself. Because when I worked as a marketing director, we hired consultants all the time who, like, I didn't find them from a website or from a fancy Instagram.

[01:15:11] It was like very much word of mouth asking someone, Hey, have you worked with someone in this space? Or like, someone I knew in my network. That's, and that's still like how I get most of. My consulting stuff, like I get a lot of inbound, but the projects that actually take on are coming from like word of mouth from someone else who's worked with me before or something like that.

[01:15:30] So, you don't need to focus on like yeah, your website and all that stuff. Just focus on your network, talking with people, and then when you quit your job, sending out an email to, you know, all those people that you've worked with in different capacities over the years in that job and be like, Hey, this is what I'm doing now.

[01:15:47] If you have any projects or work like that comes up, you think I'd be a fit for, let me know and you'll probably get responses.

[01:15:55] Rob Pintwala: That's great advice. People definitely focus a lot on like the name and the logo and the website, making it perfect where yeah, if you just reach out to people in your network, it's fantastic advice. Incredible. This has been amazing. Where can everyone find your content, your courses and everything else?

[01:16:15] If they wanna follow along.

[01:16:18] Taylor Loren: Yeah, you can check me out on Instagram at Taylor dot Lauren, and then the link to my bio will have all the places where you can find all the different things about me. But the Instagram, it will be the best place to start.

[01:16:30] Rob Pintwala: Incredible. Okay, Taylor, thank you so much for joining and have an excellent rest of your day.

[01:16:36] Taylor Loren: Thank you so much, Rob. It was awesome.